Do you want to know what happened to our group "Remember who you are" on the Insight Timer-App?
Here is the answer...
On the 12th november, Christopher, the CEO of the app, deleted our group with about 50.000 members (built up over 4 years) impulsively after deleting several posts and comments during a conflict with us.
It was shocking and devastating.
What happened in this app, every time we voiced any complaint or criticism and especially during this last conflict, is a typical form of “Gaslighting“ (definition of this term see the quote from 16.11.2020.)
For details read the long version...
We apply here our posts and comments from the last four days chronologically and combine them with some personal notes.
Many members asked us for details, of course, and we think you have a right to know the truth.
It will be quite a ride, so if you don’t want to know all the details you will be provided with the most important information by just reading the post from 12.11.2020 at the bottom.
In the early morning, we received the following email from the support, in which they told us that the Groups would be removed after the transition to the new feature Circles (a mere chat messenger).
For more than one year they had promised us that the Groups will be improved, but nothing happened.
Because of the worsening unbearable bugs that we had to deal with as admins, we asked again and again for help and more details about the future of the Groups via mail. We only received the same superficial platitudes without any real content again and again.
And suddenly they gave us this honest answer:
Nov 10, 2020, 18:54 GMT+11
Hi Verena & Alex,
Thanks for reaching out and also for being an important part of this wonderful and engaged community. I hope I can give you some clarity on this subject and, although it may not be the one you were hoping for, a resolution.
We have made a very difficult and long thought out decision about the future not only of Groups but on the social and community aspect of Insight Timer. We want people to be able to communicate easier and frictionless as they would in messenger or social platforms. We want people to be able to share and recommend with ease as finding something that moves you in our 50k+ library of content which can be a daunting task at times without the support of likeminded people. We want to make it a shared experience and to be able to meditate together no matter the distance or location. Sadly the Groups infrastructure and design would not be able to be built up to achieve these goals and the more to come.
Does this mean that Groups will become obsolete and eventually removed from the app? Sadly yes but we will wait til Groups are far less active.
Bringing people into your Circle is a very easy process so please don't worry about the difficulty of bringing your active community across. When you create a Circle you (and everyone else) get a unique URL for that Circle so you can share it anywhere and people can join simply and easily in great numbers. Simply share that URL in your Group and everyone that clicks on it goes to your Circle just like that.
We have a long list of tools and improvements for admins there as well as in the works for Circles that you will get a lot of insight and use from.
I know transitions can be difficult but I promise you in a little time you will be very happy in Circles.
Anything you need please let me or my team know and as always thank you for being with us,
Head of Support
Our post in the Group after this:
THE GROUPS WILL BE DELETED SOON!
Today is a sad and disappointing day for this Group and the Groups of this app in general.
After countless emails to the support about the future of the groups and the worsening and very tiring bugs here, we finally received an honest answer: the Groups will be replaced by Circles!!!
They will delete the groups soon completely after sucking the life even more out of them.
For about one year, they have told us that they will improve the groups and that the bugs will vanish then…
We think that a superficial and distractive messenger can never replace the groups; they could simply have integrated it into the groups as an additional feature.
Take a look at this feature yourself: this group and many other groups cannot be transferred to it because it's just a messenger, not more, and the members have to join actively; they are not transferred automatically.
We don't think at all that this form of communication is as nourishing, profound, and overseeable as it was in the groups.
It’s just ridiculous and insincere to claim that Circles is an improved version of Groups.
When they deleted the "Help"-Group (technical support among users) about one year ago, we already thought that maybe the transparency and possibility of sharing experiences and issues with the app in the groups seems to be a threat to them.
A messenger like Circles is so superficial and confusing that every message will "disappear" in the stream very quickly.
They also deleted our group for several days back then after we posted a thought-provoking quote about spiritual bypassing. They restored it because so many of you wrote them emails and complained about this.
We post the answer of the support here because we think you have a right to know the truth and get the possibility to complain and take a stand for the groups if they mean something to you.
To make it clear once again: they will delete ALL Groups and replace them with Circles.
This means our selection of quotes from nearly four years will simply be deleted here, which makes us sad and disappointed because it can offer so much support for people on the healing journey.
We have put so much love and energy into this group and this app, and now we finally see a lot of the issues we had here in a bigger picture and understand what happened beneath the surface.
As long as they stick to this decision, we will, of course, not continue posting here, and we would even cancel our membership and delete this app because we would never accept being treated like this, and we would never stay in such a disrespectful and inauthentic surrounding.
Whatever will happen: you will always find us and the daily quote via our website www.remember-who-you-are.net (direct link on our profile here). We will offer there even more content & activity in the future & all for free of course.
Thanks for listening.
Much love from us both ❤️
Verena & Alex
We also sent private messages about the shocking news to the admins of the other big groups because none of them was informed by the support.
We wanted to make sure that they can also complain and fight for the preservation of the Groups.
On the next day, we decided not to post or comment anything because we needed time to process things and also had a very busy day.
In the morning, the same support employee suddenly wrote us the following email, probably because of the countless user complaints and negative reviews that they received:
Nov 11, 2020, 12:58 GMT+11
Hi Verena & Alex,
Sorry I'd like to clarify and correct a statement I made which is lacking very important context, clarity and accuracy.
"Does this mean that Groups will become obsolete and eventually removed from the app? Sadly yes but we will wait til Groups are far less active.
Bringing people into your Circle is a very easy process so please don't worry about the difficulty of bringing your active community across. When you create a Circle you (and everyone else) get a unique URL for that Circle so you can share it anywhere and people can join simply and easily in great numbers. Simply share that URL in your Group and everyone that clicks on it goes to your Circle just like that."
Just to clarify your Groups themselves will not be lost and will merge with Circles. You will not lose the history and conversations contained in your Group. We'll also of course be adding additional functionality that you enjoy in the Groups product to Circles like upvoting, threaded conversations and more.
I am very sorry for this and accept full responsibility in this miscommunication both with myself and my team. I know how important the connections and conversations we get to have with our fellow meditators are.
Head of Support
In the evening, Christopher, the CEO, suddenly wrote a short comment below our post without any apology from his side.
He just wrote that it is not true that the groups will be deleted and that they will one day "merge" Groups and Circles.
Not one single member of our group liked his comment, and we were grateful for this signal of solidarity with us!
What was absurd is the fact that some hours before, we joined the Group "Mindful Moderating" (for Admins and Moderators), and saw there a post from him in which he apologized extremely to the other admins and said that he felt very embarrassed that such a mistake happened via his support and he asked everyone who wrote a negative review to please reconsider it…
In our group, he wrote something completely different, just because we were the uncomfortable ones who revealed it…
Here is what we answered him in our group below his comment:
we really would have appreciated an apology from you for this kind of "miscommunication".
Your support employee accepted full responsibility for this in his email this morning.
If you post something in our group then please be correct and post exactly the same explanation and apology like you did in the moderator group, so that everyone here gets to know the truth of what happened.
Your comment here sounds as if we misunderstood something and as we are the crazy ones... !?
We did nothing wrong!
We just stood up and used our voice which we have tried to do in a more patient and gentle way countless times via the support.
Often we didn't receive any answer for four weeks! Do you think it's okay to treat admins with unbearable technical bugs like this?!
We will post a message to our members tomorrow and inform them about the corrected statement of your support employee, don't worry.
We just needed some time to process things today because we were really sad and disappointed.
Please be mindful also of the love, time & energy we have put into this group and so also into your app for four years!!!
We really don't feel appreciated as admins at all.
If you look into the other groups today you will find a lot of similar statements from other admins.
Verena & Alex
Christopher didn’t answer for about 16 hours until our next post on the next day.
This was our post from the morning of this day, about 2 hours before things escalated:
Let it all go.
Trust that whatever is meant
for you will stick.
And whatever is not will go.
And in that space…
that beautiful, scary,
empty space… new life
& new plans & new beginnings
& new people will emerge.
We have given ourselves some time to think about the announced changes regarding Groups and Circles (see the last post for details).
We also got some new information from the support team yesterday (we will post it as a comment below).
In the comments below the last post, you also find a message from the CEO of this app, Christopher, and our answer.
You have to click "Load more“ to read it.
We want to make this statement as short and authentic as possible.
Fact is that our type of Group in which only we as the admins post selected quotes for the healing journey and the members can comment but not post themselves CANNOT be transferred or merged into a messenger with a chat function, no matter which additional features (like upvoting and threaded conversations) they will add some time in the future...
Apart from that, we don't want any superficial and distractive chat messenger like Circles in our life, especially not in a meditation app.
We don't like Circles at all after testing it in detail, and we have received this feedback from many other users and admins.
It brings even more ordinary social media into this app and is so much less profound and nourishing than this forum here.
We have always loved the simplicity and elegance of the Group-Design.
We think this is their worst profit-oriented decision ever, and in our opinion, they will have to deal with immense consequences if they stick with it.
Obviously, they already received so many users' complaints and negative reviews that they soften their statements now and use this kind of delaying tactic that we know so well from them…
They have promised improvements and asked us admins for patience for several years! And this is the result now...
So here is our decision: if they will change their minds and leave the groups and their main functions as they are (but without the unbearable bugs) and just offer Circles as an additional tool for those who WANT to use it, then we will continue posting here, without the bugs also more often again.
Otherwise, as sad as it is, we are forced to withdraw from here when the time has come that they will "merge the Groups into Circles" or, in other words, remove them as they are.
It's their decision.
We have put so much time, love, and energy into this Group and this app, and it really feels like a slap in the face right now.
We can only let go now and trust that whatever is meant for us will stick.
And whatever is not will go.
If you want to stick with us, you can read our daily quote and much more on our website www.remember-who-you-are.net
(direct link on our profile here).
We would love to see you there!
We hope that this message here will reach a lot of members during the next months so that everyone who visits the Group infrequently also gets the information.
Many of you have already bookmarked our website, and we will think about ways of making it more interactive to stay in contact with you all.
A thousand thanks to everyone here who has appreciated our work!
Much love to you all ❤️
Verena & Alex
This post could only be read for about 2 hours, then suddenly Christopher appeared and simply deleted the whole post from two days ago (about the announced removal of the Groups) with all of its comments (also his comment with 0 Likes and our answer to him) so that nobody could understand what we were talking about anymore.
We couldn’t believe it!!!
Instead of reacting to our comment or the new post, he simply deleted the previous post.
Then he wrote a short and ignorant comment to the new post, using the typical tactics of gaslighting (see the quote from 16.11.2020), and we answered him and complained about the deletion of the post.
We didn’t write anything offensive; we were just authentic, as you know us.
Then he deleted a comment from us again, and when we wanted to write a new one, he turned off our ability to comment completely.
So we posted something instead to inform the members (this was still possible), but he again deleted it and then turned this function off also.
It was absurd! What kind of communication and behavior is this?
Obviously, he wasn’t able to deal with an authentic conversation and just wanted to silence us.
It felt as if he wanted to provoke us at any cost, hoping that we would write something beyond the Community Guidelines.
But we didn’t at all.
In our last post, we begged him not to delete the group until they would merge Groups and Circles so that our members (also the infrequent ones) have the chance to understand what happened and follow us on our website.
Ten seconds later, he deleted the group and immediately blocked both of our accounts, so that we had absolutely no access anymore.
Boom! It felt like a stab in the heart.
This group was like our Baby, something we have brought into this world, and that meant so much to us, despite all the ups and downs.
He simply killed it. We would never have expected this.
What kind of CEO is this?
He knew what this group meant to our about 50.000 members and us.
Four years of commitment, work, time, energy, and love: simply deleted.
All of our selected quotes, all of the wonderful comments from the members, all of our answers: simply deleted.
It felt so inhuman and sickening not to be able to say goodbye to our members and to lose the selection of quotes and comments there without any preannouncement.
To destroy such a supportive tool for thousands of people impulsively in a mad frenzy is irresponsible and not mindful at all, especially in the midst of a global pandemic.
We think he wanted to finally get rid of us because we and our quotes were too thought-provoking and challenging for his spiritual mainstream-app.
About one year ago, he already deleted our group for three days after a very thought-provoking quote (most of you will surely remember this).
The support and he himself (via a private message) didn’t give us ANY answer for three days if it was a technical issue or if they deleted it. It felt awful to be treated so ignorantly and arrogantly.
Zero Empathy from their side!
Because of countless complaints from the members, they suddenly restored it after three days and then asserted that it was a technical problem, but well, now we know the truth…
There have been several similar incidents, and the worsening technical bugs made it nearly impossible to manage the group.
We understand now that they sucked the life out of all Groups more and more to prepare the transition to the Circles.
A superficial chat messenger is not as threatening and transparent as the Groups, in which critical or challenging posts can be read for weeks or months by many people...
But well, we are done now with all of this bullshit.
We have lost enough energy and time now, and we are glad that we will not have to deal with something neurotic like this again.
All that we ever wanted is to share profound and healing quotes to support others and spread the wisdom that we have gathered in our own challenging healing process, especially from the horrible ritual abuse that Alex has survived as a ten year old child.
Our message is that you can heal EVERYTHING by allowing and integrating your true feelings (see our ABOUT).
Obviously, this message doesn’t conform with the spiritual bypassing and escaping into the higher realms of an ungrounded pseudo-enlightenment that sets the tone in this app.
Thank you for listening and for all of your love and support.
We are deeply touched by the loyalty and solidarity of our followers.
If reading this was exhausting for you, we totally understand and are sorry about it, but please believe us: experiencing it was accordingly… : (
Obviously, now is the time to reveal such toxic, inauthentic, and bossy structures, on the individual and collective level.
Now let’s move forward.
Enough is enough.
Karma will fix it.
Much love from us both ❤️
Verena & Alex